Poll

[eb0]

Be serious.

[Prosthetics]

I think they nerfed the back burner nicely, but I still really dislike the airblast.

[AzzSazzin<TWM>]

I agree the airblast shouldn't move other players but other than that the last update fixed the glaring issues imo

[.eric]

I think the airblast is just something that takes some getting used to. The pyro is a very weak class without it. The game needs balance.

[Enlightened Fool]

"Pyro update has changed nothing"

Quit whining. Only Uber's can't be killed.
Problem with the air blasting of ubers? Kill the pyro's first.
Really not that hard...

[Prosthetics]

can't kill them if you being blown around everywhere. The objective of the airblast was to be able to counter projectiles not players themselves. That is what makes it broken.

[Phearr]

I think they nerfed em abit but they should put them back to before teh achivement sets cuz they still seem overpowered

[JMaster299]

Why they hell should I need to waste an Uber just to kill a Pyro??? Ubers are to kill Sentry Guns or a whole horde of people. One single Pyro can frak that up becuase of his air cannon.

[Timmah!]

Why they hell should I need to waste an Uber just to kill a Pyro??? Ubers are to kill Sentry Guns or a whole horde of people. One single Pyro can frak that up becuase of his air cannon.
Exactly. Ubers only last so long and for demos and soldiers, there's a limitation to how much you can shoot before you have to reload - using the uber to kill a pyro is a waste of an uber and defeats the purpose of ever an uber almost entirely (which, of course, is to destroy sentries and/or a mass of enemies).

[Lstormy10]

I think people just need to get over being mad about pyros having a new power and learn to adapt to the them. A skilled demo can also mess-up an uber just as easily as a pyro with an airblast can - just stickie underneath the feet of the uber and blow them sky-high.

The only things I have found questionnable about the pyro updates were the extra health with the backburner and the bad detection of actual backs with the backburner. Both of those have been fixed and the pyro is balanced nicely.

In addition, the future updates will keep the pyro balanced - especially the upcoming heavy update.

[8bit]

can't kill them if you being blown around everywhere. The objective of the airblast was to be able to counter projectiles not players themselves. That is what makes it broken.
You can't kill them when you are being blown around??... Lies you can just keep on shooting. The trick is to aim down at the pyro when you are in the air... Give it a try. I have yet to encounter somebody so clueless as to be completely disarmed by being hit by a compression blast.

The pyros.. they really can't kill you when you are being blown around. The Pyro can't shoot fire for about a second after using his compression blast. Which is about as long as your flight. Lets not mention the almost prohibitively high cost of compression blast.. it uses 1/8th of your ammo. Pyros burn (pun intended?) through ammo, they live off of ammo from weapon pick-ups. Compression blast uses a lot of ammo and doesn't contribute to a kill which would provide the ammo replenishment the pyro needs. Shotgun time?

As for compression blast pyros breaking every uber they see... I really don't know what server people with this complaint have been playing on. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a pyro break an uber with his compression blast. About the same amount of times as I've seen Soldiers and Demos break an uber.

[sloppy]

QQ more or get good at the game

/thread

[Blonde]

I think they finally got it right. They gave the pyro its abilities, and its all balanced now. Next time get it right the first time, valve, thx.

[Timmah!]

At least I can kill pyros with 2 rockets again. :D

[Enlightened Fool]

can't kill them if you being blown around everywhere. The objective of the airblast was to be able to counter projectiles not players themselves. That is what makes it broken.

In TF2 update news (http://steamgames.com/tf2/pyro/):
"In addition to the three unlockable Pyro weapons, we've made a significant addition to the base Pyro flamethrower. By hitting the alt-fire key, the Pyro is able to produce a blast of compressed air that knocks enemies away, and redirects enemy projectiles. It’s a highly versatile tool, allowing Pyros to get away from nearby enemies after igniting them, to kill enemy soldiers with their own rockets, or to separate enemy Medics from their healing targets. In particular, it allows a skilled Pyro to contain an enemy invulnerability push, and even to separate the Medic completely if the surrounding terrain supports it."

That's what they intended it for, it's not broken.
I A skilled demo can also mess-up an uber just as easily as a pyro with an airblast can - just stickie underneath the feet of the uber and blow them sky-high.

Exactly.
QQ more or get good at the game

I agree with that, for my ending statement.

[8bit]

At least I can kill pyros with 2 rockets again. :D

Stop Bragging. I've suffered enough already.

[Glork]

I think they finally got it right. They gave the pyro its abilities, and its all balanced now. Next time get it right the first time, valve, thx.Winner.

10char

[lulzkiller]

"Pyro update has changed nothing"

Quit whining. Only Uber's can't be killed.
Problem with the air blasting of ubers? Kill the pyro's first.
Really not that hard...

It's a problem when a player airblasts you, the sentry catches you in the air, then you go flying 200 feet in the air.

THAT'S a problem. Compression blast is not.

[Timmah!]

It's a problem when a player airblasts you, the sentry catches you in the air, then you go flying 200 feet in the air.

THAT'S a problem. Compression blast is not.
QFT.

And to the point about us demo's being able to blow people sky-high... BS. The only time that works is if I have like 3 right underneath the feet of someone with an uber or a crit. From what I've seen, a single sticky under someone with an uber does nothing.

[ASTROBLACK]

So is this bitching and moaning going to happen with every class update? For Christ's sake, it's sad.

[ZUEIG]

QFT.

And to the point about us demo's being able to blow people sky-high... BS. The only time that works is if I have like 3 right underneath the feet of someone with an uber or a crit. From what I've seen, a single sticky under someone with an uber does nothing.


Yeah and stickies require advance preparation. You need to estimate where they are coming from. It's not just a simple aim and right mouse.

[ASTROBLACK]

It's not just a simple aim and right mouse.


Yes it is.

[Lstormy10]

And to the point about us demo's being able to blow people sky-high... BS. The only time that works is if I have like 3 right underneath the feet of someone with an uber or a crit. From what I've seen, a single sticky under someone with an uber does nothing.

And what demo would only use 1 stickie? None.

A single air blast does barely anything on its own. You have to have multiple air blasts or an outside force such as a sentry to do anything that is going to stop an uber.

[Timmah!]

No one bitched about the medic update.

[Timmah!]

And what demo would only use 1 stickie? None.

Even 2 or 3 barely do anything. Only a crit moves them much. And besides... Stickies don't run after you, so it's a little hard to predict where someone's going to be after the time it takes to put 3 stickies down - and then they can just avoid them.

A single air blast does barely anything on its own. You have to have multiple air blasts or an outside force such as a sentry to do anything that is going to stop an uber.
When do you think people are most likely to use an uber?

[Alvari]

The thing about the pyro update that I really haven't liked is not its power, but the general quantity of them now compared to what they were. With this last update is at least helps because its easier to take the pyros out

[Frodo De Mar]

When do you think people are most likely to use an uber?
yeah, i know, pick me, me! when there is a sentry gun!

but my opinion really, now that the health bonus for the backburner is gone the pryo is a lot more balanced, they will die again! i really dont mind the airblast that much and i think we should stop complaining about the pyro and wait until the next update comes out so we can complain a bunch about that. maybe the next update will even be something like giving the heavy the ability to blink at pyros and instantly blow them up or something sweet like that.

[ZUEIG]

maybe the next update will even be something like giving the heavy the ability to blink at pyros and instantly blow them up or something sweet like that.

The heavy "PoW!" taunt that kills only pyros!

[Lstormy10]

Even 2 or 3 barely do anything. Only a crit moves them much. And besides... Stickies don't run after you, so it's a little hard to predict where someone's going to be after the time it takes to put 3 stickies down - and then they can just avoid them.

When do you think people are most likely to use an uber?

Oh god, people have to be strategic in how these use ubers or stickies! What a shame they can't just blindly pop a uber and run!

Seriously though, people should just get over it and adapt to the pyro. Plus, we all know that heavies generally are able to give pyros a hard time and heavies are the next up for updates.

:fighting0066:

[Rommy]

I kinda pride myself on being able to break an uber. Just gotta determine where said uber is gonna head to (most likely a sentry or point of interest). Pop 3 or 4 stickies in that path, and wait for the ubered person to walk past the stickies. Now BEFORE the medic walks over them, BAAM! The medic goes flying in one direction and the ubereed goes in another! When you see it, it is a thing of beauty.

[Enlightened Fool]

A single air blast does barely anything on its own. You have to have multiple air blasts or an outside force such as a sentry to do anything that is going to stop an uber.

No, no you don't. I do this all the time by myself.
Going towards an uber, crouch and point your fthrower at the med's head, AC blast, and keep aiming up or blast them towards somewhere they can fall.

And even before the pyro update, I was breaking ubers apart with stickies. It's really NOT HARD TO DO. Seriously.
Use the landscape to your advantage, ex: the last map of dustbowl, if red, on the bridge to the last point. Or any other types of open-headed(no ceilings) spaces, like constricted walkways/paths.


I am not bragging about doing a simple thing, anyone can do either.
Really, it can be done with a soldier too, but for me that is hard to do.

[Lstormy10]

Yeah, I have seen some soldiers do it, but mostly when the uber is in an area where people can fall off (like the location you mention in dustbowl).

[Brandname]

The demoman doesn't have a lot of options to deal with an airblast pyro when he's ubered.

1) Both of his weapons are projectile weapons that can be reflected by the air blast (which is being used constantly to break the uber). The bottle is not a viable option against a pyro that's blasting you away.

2) The only real possibility is timing two pipes perfectly so that they fall into the narrow window when the air blast won't reflect them, AND hit both of them on the pyro. Stickies' timer is long enough that they will often get reflected or pushed away before you can detonate.

3) And decent pyro is going to move enough and just erratically enough to make that nearly impossible when you're being jolted back and forth in mid air.

4) Add in the fact that uber is a very short 10 seconds, and even if the demo does manage to kill the pyro, there's a good change he won't have enough time left to take out the sentry. If there is more than one sentry, forget about it.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the air blast has way too much of an effect on characters. I know that Valve intended it this way. They said so on the update release. But I still think it's too much.

Heck, we ran a pyro for this sole reason in a match the other night and dominated with it because they usually couldn't get close enough to kill our sentry. And they were all very good players we were facing.

The maps weren't created with the thought of a pyro completely stifling an uber in mind. A lot of places (i.e. the tunnel after the one way gate on Dustbowl 2 cap 2) were clearly designed as a place to build up an uber and push out, but now you throw a decent pyro on that hall way and the uber won't be able to make it out in time. I personally think it's way too strong against character models, but that's just my opinion. I would have much preferred it only affect projectiles.

[PandaBear Assassin]

The demoman doesn't have a lot of options to deal with an airblast pyro when he's ubered.

1) Both of his weapons are projectile weapons that can be reflected by the air blast (which is being used constantly to break the uber). The bottle is not a viable option against a pyro that's blasting you away.

2) The only really possibility is timing two pipes perfectly so that they fall into the narrow window when the air blast won't reflect them, AND hit both of them on the pyro. Stickies' timer is long enough that they will often get reflected or pushed away before you can detonate.

3) And decent pyro is going to move enough and just erratically enough to make that nearly impossible when you're being jolted back and forth in mid air.

4) Add in the fact that uber is a very short 10 seconds, and even if the demo does manage to kill the pyro, there's a good change he won't have enough time left to take out the sentry. If there is more than one sentry, forget about it.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the air blast has way too much of an effect on characters. I know that Valve intended it this way. They said so on the update release. But I still think it's too much.

Heck, we ran a pyro for this sole reason in a match the other night and dominated with it because they usually couldn't get close enough to kill our sentry. And they were all very good players we were facing.

The maps weren't created with the thought of a pyro completely stifling an uber in mind. A lot of places (i.e. the tunnel after the one way gate on Dustbowl 2 cap 2) were clearly designed as a place to build up an uber and push out, but now you throw a decent pyro on that hall way and the uber won't be able to make it out in time. I personally think it's way too strong against character models, but that's just my opinion. I would have much preferred it only affect projectiles.

Yea I definitely agree with this. I still don't really understand why they added such a good upgrade to the pyro's base weapon. I'm really interested to see how valve upgrades the other classes to balance things out.

[Lstormy10]

Yea I definitely agree with this. I still don't really understand why they added such a good upgrade to the pyro's base weapon. I'm really interested to see how valve upgrades the other classes to balance things out.

We'll find out soon enough with the upcoming Heavy update.

[Brandname]

I may be wrong, but I don't get the impression Valve plans on upgrading the other classes. I think the pyro upgrade was solely stemming from the general feeling that it was underpowered.

[Glork]

While I agree that the air blast is a little *too* effective, I don't see why people are complaining about it so adamantly. For the typical players in the typical game, uber meant "several dead buildings" at least 80% of the time. I'm glad that most people have a viable way of combating that nowadays. I'm more or less taking Brandname's word on the competitive TF2 scene, but I really feel that a lot of people are just bitching because their jobs got harder.

[Lstormy10]

While I agree that the air blast is a little *too* effective, I don't see why people are complaining about it so adamantly. For the typical players in the typical game, uber meant "several dead buildings" at least 80% of the time. I'm glad that most people have a viable way of combating that nowadays. I'm more or less taking Brandname's word on the competitive TF2 scene, but I really feel that a lot of people are just bitching because their jobs got harder.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

:fighting0066:

[Brandname]

While I agree that the air blast is a little *too* effective, I don't see why people are complaining about it so adamantly. For the typical players in the typical game, uber meant "several dead buildings" at least 80% of the time. I'm glad that most people have a viable way of combating that nowadays. I'm more or less taking Brandname's word on the competitive TF2 scene, but I really feel that a lot of people are just bitching because their jobs got harder.

Pyro is still relatively uncommon competitively, but I think we're realizing that it can be very useful situationally. We used it in Mach4, where there is one entrance that is used more often than any of the others for the uber. And it's really easy to disrupt the uber coming in that way.

But I would never make any arguments about the pyro based on competition, since the pyro is still relatively underpowered in 6v6 in my opinion. The issue comes in for pubs where there are 4, 5, or 6 pyros on a team. It can make it nearly impossible to get in and take out sentries in this case, even if you are extremely skilled. I think that's what I have the issue with -- the relative skill it takes to disrupt an uber is very low. It's really easy to do.

Perhaps it might be all right if they lowered the width of the air blast to something reasonable:

http://www.wegame.com/watch/Compression_Blast_Overpowered_against_soldiers/

[PandaBear Assassin]

Perhaps it might be all right if they lowered the width of the air blast to something reasonable:

http://www.wegame.com/watch/Compression_Blast_Overpowered_against_soldiers/

Ok now, that's just ridiculous.

[Timmah!]

Perhaps it might be all right if they lowered the width of the air blast to something reasonable:

http://www.wegame.com/watch/Compression_Blast_Overpowered_against_soldiers/

Pyro's sappin' mah rockets!!!

[Enlightened Fool]

I will gladly agree with that vid/statement, Brandname.
They probably made it while being lazy, it seems the ACB is the same "size"(if you will) as the flame, and it shouldn't be. It's as if they just changed the animation and outcome, not dealing with making it "from scratch".
It should be just a dead on blast(on cursor), not a large angle like the norm FT.

[cixelsyd]

so did u all really need 3 pages to argue whether or not the pyro update sux ass which it does

[Glork]

so did u all really need 3 pages to argue whether or not the pyro update sux ass which it does
Need? Nah.

Want? Apparently.

[Iron Lung]

can't kill them if you being blown around everywhere. The objective of the airblast was to be able to counter projectiles not players themselves. That is what makes it broken.

Wrong

pretty sure valve very much intended for the airblast to counter ubers... I'll go hunting for a quote from them later.

[Brandname]

Wrong

pretty sure valve very much intended for the airblast to counter ubers... I'll go hunting for a quote from them later.

You're right. It was intentional.

[ditship]

Wrong

pretty sure valve very much intended for the airblast to counter ubers... I'll go hunting for a quote from them later.

"In addition to the three unlockable Pyro weapons, we've made a significant addition to the base Pyro flamethrower. By hitting the alt-fire key, the Pyro is able to produce a blast of compressed air that knocks enemies away, and redirects enemy projectiles. It's a highly versatile tool, allowing Pyros to get away from nearby enemies after igniting them, to kill enemy soldiers with their own rockets, or to separate enemy Medics from their healing targets. In particular, it allows a skilled Pyro to contain an enemy invulnerability push, and even to separate the Medic completely if the surrounding terrain supports it." - Valve

[Iron Lung]

thanks dit, I realized after I made the post someone had already made the same one pretty right after pros made his statement.. just didn't scroll I was so worked up :P

Really though, just leave the pyro alone people, they took away the 50hp, which was the only problem and now you're just bitching cause whats really happened is that in the past month or so some really great pyros have been born and now you have to deal with good pyros on a regular basis QQ not Pew Pew, we only have 175hp now shouldn't be too hard...

[Iron Lung]

Pew Pew not QQ

edit is broken for me somehow

[sloppy]

Pew Pew not QQ

edit is broken for me somehow

you have to double click it to makes it work

[PandaBear Assassin]

edit is broken for me somehow

You just have to click it twice. It never works for me the first time I click it.