Drinking Age

[hOoLiGaN]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=43Zr26Cr7bk

Discuss.

[Blonde]

Did you make this?

E, when are you gonna put restrictions so people cant post stupid shit just to gain "experience?"

[jormisdf]

If you let them drink at age 5-6 they will know how bad it tastes and wont do it.

[XrazorX]

thank god for living in canada. but seriously....my legal drinking age was whenever the hell i felt like drinking, your not supposed to do it, but everyone does it anyway

[Prosthetics]

It actually is legal for kids to drink at any age if you are on your property and your parents supply you with it. So you could legally get drunk on your property as long as you don't leave your property.

I think the legal drinking age is where it is for a reason. Kids need to first get used to driving a car before given the chance to drive drunk.

[hOoLiGaN]

Did you make this?

E, when are you gonna put restrictions so people cant post stupid shit just to gain "experience?"

Excuse me sir for trying to gather other people's thoughts and opinions about the opposition to the legal drinking age. If you truly have no view on this topic, then your post was just another attempt to "gain experience". In which case, you would be a hypocrite.

Personally I like the belief that if you can die for your country, you should be able to walk into a bar and get a drink. Maybe they should raise the military entry age to 21, or lower the legal drinking age to 18. I'm just saying, its a bit ridiculous.

[yum yums]

In Wisconsin, if you are accompanied by a parent or legal guardian and are at least 14 years old, you can drink at a bar.

I have mixed feelings on the drinking age. Part of me wouldn't mind seeing it lowered, but the other part wants it to stay at 21.

I am almost 22, btw.

[JustNate]

yeah.. I drank at an early age, because this law is dumb. I'm also in the military, in germany.. and now 21. :/ You can drink over here at 18. You can buy liqour and beer in the shoppette.. they don't card you, because they know if they do, you'll just go to the bar or clubs.

I think in the states, the age should be 16-18.. whichever of the 3 ages they would deem "responsible" enough. Trust me, living 21 years of life, doesn't mean you'll be responsible.

[Khartoum]

Drinking age is fine where it's at. Never stopped underage drinking as it is, so why let more little kids run around all liquored up? Besides, the human brain isn't developed fully at 21 anyways, so why decrease it?

Hooligan's logic is *^#$*^#$*^#$*^#$ed because not all 18 year olds enlist, only a very small percentage of 18 year old kids of the entire nation enlist while they are 18. So why let an extremely small percentage of the nation pull the bandwagon for the rest of the sub 21 age group? Doesn't seem right to me, however, to all the 17-20 year olds that do enlist, I do support them being able to freely buy alcohol whenever they wish. Off duty of course, because for them, waiting until they turn 21 to start buying is a bit more stressful than the rest of the sub 21 group. They have to worry about, you know, deploying and the rest of them have to worry about... making money.

[ShangoXG]

I'm glad i live in england.
well...actually i hate living in england.
i like alcohol.

[JustNate]

Drinking age is fine where it's at. Never stopped underage drinking as it is, so why let more little kids run around all liquored up? Besides, the human brain isn't developed fully at 21 anyways, so why decrease it?

Hooligan's logic is *^#$*^#$*^#$*^#$ed because not all 18 year olds enlist, only a very small percentage of 18 year old kids of the entire nation enlist while they are 18. So why let an extremely small percentage of the nation pull the bandwagon for the rest of the sub 21 age group? Doesn't seem right to me, however, to all the 17-20 year olds that do enlist, I do support them being able to freely buy alcohol whenever they wish. Off duty of course, because for them, waiting until they turn 21 to start buying is a bit more stressful than the rest of the sub 21 group. They have to worry about, you know, deploying and the rest of them have to worry about... making money.

or change the law to let those who serve this country at 17-20 buy alcohol?? That'd be even better.. because chances are, if you are 17-20 and live in the barracks, someone has alcohol. and lots of it. (checks fridge.. check!) :/

A lot of people may think, "just because you serve the country doesn't give you extra privileges".. it actually does.. and drinking should be one of them. Most of the 17-20 age group service members are out of country anyways.. Germany, Italy, Iraq, Afghanistan.. etc. Can't drink while deployed, but we sure as hell should be allowed to drink in garrison. No matter where we're stationed or how old we are. Just my 2 cents.

[Khartoum]

Oh, I totally agree with you about those who serve should be allowed to drink no matter what their age is, as long as if it doesn't interfere with their duties. But off hours, if you just want to go back and chill in garrison, then there is absolutely no harm in cracking open a beer or anything else while watching sports center. The sub 21 people who enlist do a lot more than their civilian equivalent, so they absolutely deserve something extra.

I'm in the military, I enlisted at 20, was able to walk into bars and order a drink. No funny business nor fake ID, hell, alot of times, it was even on the house. So hooligan's inference that ALL 18-20 year olds should be allowed to drink, because enlistment age is at 18 (without parental consent) is a bit insulting to me and I am sure others feel the same way.

[JustNate]

Oh, I totally agree with you about those who serve should be allowed to drink no matter what their age is, as long as if it doesn't interfere with their duties. But off hours, if you just want to go back and chill in garrison, then there is absolutely no harm in cracking open a beer or anything else while watching sports center. The sub 21 people who enlist do a lot more than their civilian equivalent, so they absolutely deserve something extra.

I'm in the military, I enlisted at 20, was able to walk into bars and order a drink. No funny business nor fake ID, hell, alot of times, it was even on the house. So hooligan's inference that ALL 18-20 year olds should be allowed to drink, because enlistment age is at 18 (without parental consent) is a bit insulting to me and I am sure others feel the same way.

I signed up at 20 too, they put me in germany 5 months before my 21st.. lol. So I could go drink offpost if I wanted, and they couldn't do much.. on base it's not much different because of that. What component are you?

[sloppy]

Ok so I wrote a huge research paper on this whole subject.

Here are some facts. IF you are enlisted in the army or any part of the armed services you are legally aloud to drink alcohol regardless of your age. Another fact is that 12 is the age in which your body is supposed to have entered puberty. Some people argue that alcohol is deadly and dangerous for a 12 year old. Well when you reach 12 years old you start recieving adult doses of motrin, antibiotics, etc etc. SO at 12 your body is as ready as it will ever be to consume alcohol. Then comes the argument of responsibility. Well people will argue this on forever and ever and ever. But if your responsible enough to drive, smoke, work, live on your OWN, then you should be responsible enough to drink. I mean lets face the fact alot of 21 year olds are just as irresponsible as 18 year olds. And flame this post if you want :D

[Alvari]

Ok discussing, That is some of the most pointless, and worst acting I have ever seen... It posses no new argument and there is no clear presentation of sides. (parts of the video conflict.) Anyway, yeah lets not go there. If you can't drink yet then just get older, it just takes some time.

[JustNate]

Ok discussing, That is some of the most pointless, and worst acting I have ever seen... It posses no new argument and there is no clear presentation of sides. (parts of the video conflict.) Anyway, yeah lets not go there. If you can't drink yet then just get older, it just takes some time.

I agree with you about the video.. but --> Anyway, yeah lets not go there. If you can't drink yet then just get older, it just takes some time.

... orly? That's the worst rebuttal Ive ever heard. This same arguement about lowering the age of alcohol consumption could be argued with M rated video games. How many 10-16 yr olds play M rated video games? and how many of those smoke pot or drink?

It all comes down to people being different and how men and women raise their kids. Hell, even kids are raising kids these days.. so *^#$*^#$*^#$*^#$ it. Argument in the crapper now.. LOL!

[Alvari]

It all comes down to people being different and how men and women raise their kids. Hell, even kids are raising kids these days.. so *^#$*^#$*^#$*^#$ it. Argument in the crapper now.. LOL!

Technically the argument used here, as bad as it is, was originated for video games so I don't expect it to be all that great. People mature at different rates, the gov't just trying to find an average age where people are in general mature enough to handle drinking, and apes the people. 21 they figure is a good age for one reason of another. Also its not so much an argument as a statement.

Oh and heres where I stole the get older comment from:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20060320.jpg

[JustNate]

Technically the argument used here, as bad as it is, was originated for video games so I don't expect it to be all that great. People mature at different rates, the gov't just trying to find an average age where people are in general mature enough to handle drinking, and apes the people. 21 they figure is a good age for one reason of another. Also its not so much an argument as a statement.

Oh and heres where I stole the get older comment from:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20060320.jpg

hahaha, I knew that comment reminded me of video games, but I couldn't think why. <3 PA.

[lulzkiller]

The inherent flaw of any "age restrictions" is that you're applying a collective generalization to an individual. A group of 12 year olds are probably immature, but an individual 12 year old may not be.

Get rid of all these dumb age restrictions. The best thing you can do about the drinking age restriction is to simply make the seller accountable for the actions of a minor. If a bartender gives a 12 year old some beer, then now that bartender is held liable for anything that happens to the minor when he's intoxicated.

Accountability does wonders in the market. Just ask the accounting firms after Sarbanes-Oxley.

[Alvari]

No one wants to be held accountable is the problem. Parents blame video games, ads, tvs, blah de blah. They in turn blame parents. To ask a bartender who is payed likely little more then minimum wage to watch a twelve year is too much to ask mainly because in the end he doesn't care enough until something bad actually happens. There is also the issue of the effect alcohol has on younger bodies if we go that low on the age spectrum. It wouldn't be a bad idea on the other hand to have parent teach their children how to drink. In France many to most children are fed watered down wine with dinner. It the parents kid so it needs to be their job to hold them accountable, but don't ask anymore of the people not directly related to the kids, and keep the kids contained and in a controlled environment while teaching them to respect the drink.

[lulzkiller]

No one wants to be held accountable is the problem. Parents blame video games, ads, tvs, blah de blah. They in turn blame parents. To ask a bartender who is payed likely little more then minimum wage to watch a twelve year is too much to ask mainly because in the end he doesn't care enough until something bad actually happens. There is also the issue of the effect alcohol has on younger bodies if we go that low on the age spectrum. It wouldn't be a bad idea on the other hand to have parent teach their children how to drink. In France many to most children are fed watered down wine with dinner. It the parents kid so it needs to be their job to hold them accountable, but don't ask anymore of the people not directly related to the kids, and keep the kids contained and in a controlled environment while teaching them to respect the drink.

That's the point. He doesn't WANT to be held accountable, and therefore won't sell it to the minor. If government shoulders an accountability where it's properly due, people will avoid the risk. Is a bartender really going to risk any property damage or medical bills just for the sake of few bucks from a sale?

Keep the seller accountable for the externalities of alcohol (with minors) and watch alcohol consumption decrease dramatically. Hit the sellers and providers of alcohol where it hurts the most. Not morality, not laws, but the POCKETBOOK.

Sarbanes-Oxley is the perfect example. It keeps accounting firms accountable (lol pun) for the actions of the client. Therefore, the accounting firm is going to do whatever it can to make sure that the business in question isn't fleecing the public. It creates a higher level of scrutiny that didn't exist before.

[Alvari]

That's the point. He doesn't WANT to be held accountable, and therefore won't sell it to the minor. If government shoulders an accountable where it's properly due, people will avoid the risk. Is a bartender really going to risk any property damage or medical bills just for the sake of a sale?

Keep the seller accountable for the externalities of alcohol (with minors) and watch alcohol consumption decrease dramatically.

Sarbanes-Oxley is the perfect example. It keeps accounting firms accountable (lol pun) for the actions of the client. Therefore, the accounting firm is going to do whatever it can to make sure that the business in question isn't fleecing the public. It creates a higher level of scrutiny that didn't exist before.

The alcohol industry dies, the world is slightly happier, until they figure out that alcohol is a big part of economy and ends up hurting a lot of people.

Theres also the fact that someone gets mad because someone refused another persons business, and eventually some oversensitive prick and or brat takes it as an unjust affair and someone gets sued. Later a movement starts, and we end up back were we began where the gov't is left to be in charge of who should and should not be given alcohol.... A temporary fix. Accountability could work for a time, but unfortunately we have a law system that will allow people to sue for just about anything these days.

[lulzkiller]

The alcohol industry dies, the world is slightly happier, until they figure out that alcohol is a big part of economy and ends up hurting a lot of people.

Theres also the fact that someone gets mad because someone refused another persons business, and eventually some oversensitive prick and or brat takes it as an unjust affair and someone gets sued. Later a movement starts, and we end up back were we began where the gov't is left to be in charge of who should and should not be given alcohol.... A temporary fix. Accountability could work for a time, but unfortunately we have a law system that will allow people to sue for just about anything these days.

The alcohol industry isn't going to die because vendors are held accountable for the actions of minors. I don't think even 20% of alcohol consumption is minors.

You forget that any business can refuse service to any customer, but this time the government provides the incentive to refuse service. That's the beauty of the market: it's a mutual exchange between two parties (but each party doesn't have to be a group. It could be an individual). If one party doesn't want to buy or sell (respectively), then nobody is forcing you to do so. Ever walk outside a 7-11 and see a sign that says "no shirt no shoes no service?" Are people without shirts complaining about 7-11 denying service? A crude example, yes, but it's just an example of a business denying service...

It would be incredibly frivolous to sue a business for denying a service because they are not obliged to serve anyone. As well, no consumer is obligated to buy any product.

Now in my scenario, government provides the incentive for businesses and parents to not provide alcohol for minors. Minors can walk into an pub, any tavern, or any store and TRY to order some beer, but if it's store policy to refuse service because they don't want to face any liabilities, that's THE STORE'S BUSINESS.

To my knowledge, there isn't anything bad that derives from this situation. Alcohol consumption with minors will definitely go down, the industry's still alive, and the externalities of irresponsible behavior decreases. The individuals that are responsible will be rewarded for being allowed to drink, and the irresponsible individuals will be punished because they won't be allowed to drink (if a parent thinks a child is irresponsible, he/she won't buy the child alcohol because he/she don't want to face liabilities. If a parent does think his/her child is responsible, he/she will take the risk and provide the child with alcohol). Again, it all boils down to hitting people where it hurts the most: the pocketbook.

[hOoLiGaN]

This thread went into a political policy debate......

[sloppy]

To my knowledge, there isn't anything bad that derives from this situation. Alcohol consumption with minors will definitely go down, the industry's still alive, and the externalities of irresponsible behavior decreases. The individuals that are responsible will be rewarded for being allowed to drink, and the irresponsible individuals will be punished because they won't be allowed to drink (if a parent thinks a child is irresponsible, he/she won't buy the child alcohol because he/she don't want to face liabilities. If a parent does think his/her child is responsible, he/she will take the risk and provide the child with alcohol). Again, it all boils down to hitting people where it hurts the most: the pocketbook.

Wrong. If they did in fact put all liability on the provider then kids would get it the way they do now. They would pay a bum, get an older friend, etc. etc. and then there would be no repercussion for them getting completely shit-faced.

[lulzkiller]

Wrong. If they did in fact put all liability on the provider then kids would get it the way they do now. They would pay a bum, get an older friend, etc. etc. and then there would be no repercussion for them getting completely shit-faced.

I didn't say it would eliminate externalities entirely because that would be a foolish thing to say. There are holes, but overall, it would decrease alcohol consumption with minors.

...Why would the older friend purchase alcohol for the minors knowing full-well that the minors are now his responsibility? As a 26 year old, if I was held liable for the actions of an intoxicated minor, I would NEVER purchase alcohol for any minor, even if it was my brother.

[Timmah!]

The inherent flaw of any "age restrictions" is that you're applying a collective generalization to an individual. A group of 12 year olds are probably immature, but an individual 12 year old may not be.

Get rid of all these dumb age restrictions. The best thing you can do about the drinking age restriction is to simply make the seller accountable for the actions of a minor. If a bartender gives a 12 year old some beer, then now that bartender is held liable for anything that happens to the minor when he's intoxicated.

Age restrictions are inherently arbitrary, of course, but what you're suggesting is rediculous. Why should the bartender be responsible for someone else's actions? People need to start taking responsibility for their OWN actions; not someone else's. The age restriction is arbitrary (some people are mature enough at a much younger age, many aren't mature enough by 21), but lowering it would be a mistake. Enough people get killed as it is because of idiot drunk drivers - we don't need more.

Here's the funny thing: I'm a little biased because my parents would serve us [a little] alcohol when we were like 10 on special occassions; so there was nothing special about alcohol when I got older and never had a problem controlling my intake. So while I support the 21 age limit for someone drinking in public w/o a parent, I do encourage parents to give their kids a watered-down drink (I grew up on Whiskey Sours, btw) on occassion just so they learn to drink in moderation and responsibly.

[lulzkiller]

Age restrictions are inherently arbitrary, of course, but what you're suggesting is rediculous. Why should the bartender be responsible for someone else's actions? People need to start taking responsibility for their OWN actions; not someone else's. The age restriction is arbitrary (some people are mature enough at a much younger age, many aren't mature enough by 21), but lowering it would be a mistake. Enough people get killed as it is because of idiot drunk drivers - we don't need more.

Here's the funny thing: I'm a little biased because my parents would serve us [a little] alcohol when we were like 10 on special occassions; so there was nothing special about alcohol when I got older and never had a problem controlling my intake. So while I support the 21 age limit for someone drinking in public w/o a parent, I do encourage parents to give their kids a watered-down drink (I grew up on Whiskey Sours, btw) on occassion just so they learn to drink in moderation and responsibly.

What you said proves my point exactly. Minors are GENERALLY not mature enough to be responsible for themselves. Kids do stupid things. You can't hold a 13 year old liable for property damage while intoxicated because he doesn't know any better. The provider should be held liable because he DID know better, and he shouldn't have provided the alcohol for the minor.

[CptMorgan]

looks like ther person behind the camera had the most to drink

or had palsy


drunken babies are the best - second only to drunken pregnant women

i once got peed on, by a person, not only did i wake up FREEZING, but had to explain to a friends mom why i was soaked in pee/vomit and sleeping on her couch

i also smelled like pee-vomit

i learned a valuable lesson that night, one person can NOT consume an entire box of wine and expect the night to go well

[Timmah!]

What you said proves my point exactly. Minors are GENERALLY not mature enough to be responsible for themselves. Kids do stupid things. You can't hold a 13 year old liable for property damage while intoxicated because he doesn't know any better. The provider should be held liable because he DID know better, and he shouldn't have provided the alcohol for the minor.
I thought you were suggesting bartenders be held accountable? For a minor, the parents/legal guardians should be the responsible party - because that is the rule outside of liquor anyway. Maybe we're saying the same thing. :) But that does nothing for the 18-21 age group that complains about the drinking age most.

[Tippo]

i complained about it until i was 21, then i turned 21 and said 21 is the appropriate age for drinking.

same goes with driving, i complained they shouldn't change the rule from 16 to 18. when i turned 18, i said the driving age should be changed to 18. lol

[lulzkiller]

I thought you were suggesting bartenders be held accountable? For a minor, the parents/legal guardians should be the responsible party - because that is the rule outside of liquor anyway. Maybe we're saying the same thing. :) But that does nothing for the 18-21 age group that complains about the drinking age most.

Whoever the provider is. Parents can't chain their children 100% of the time because children are still human and still capable of making decisions...whoever provides the alcohol to the minors should be held responsible for their behavior.

[mgz]

This is just like arguing over politics or religion, no one will win.

[AzzSazzin<TWM>]

As a former bartender, if the actions of my patrons were my responsibility nobody would be drinking!!! No matter what their age was. The $2.13 an hour (not even min wage cause tips were generally given) I made is nowhere near enough to shoulder that responsibility. I am willing to refuse service if I think a patron is a danger to others, but not my job to stop him/her from being a danger to themselves.

[TrinitY^PL]

jormisdf, lemme guess, ur a teenager, that thinks that drinking is "cool."
im with sloppy ive taken so many classes regarding drinking, drugs, and how they affect the brain. (studying criminal justice)there is a reason Y the government set the drinking age to 21. when u get there, u will understand.

we as people have opinions, but guess what??
opinion never get ne where, other than a stupid arguments and shit like that.

stupid topic, this is only for gaining posts!!!!!!!

:fighting0066:

[lulzkiller]

As a former bartender, if the actions of my patrons were my responsibility nobody would be drinking!!! No matter what their age was. The $2.13 an hour (not even min wage cause tips were generally given) I made is nowhere near enough to shoulder that responsibility. I am willing to refuse service if I think a patron is a danger to others, but not my job to stop him/her from being a danger to themselves.

EXACTLY. That's the point. Minors will be ALLOWED to buy beer at a bar, but it'll be up to the discretion of the provider (in this case the bartender) whether or not he wants to shoulder the responsibility for the minor. This'll decrease minor consumption of alcohol by a shitload...

of course, anyone above the age of...18 (or 21, debatable) will have to be held accountable for themselves

[Phearr]

Hmmmmm lol

[Enlightened Viet]

You guys think too much..I will probably never drink or smoke or even do drugs. Maybe drink a little on uber rare occassions buts thats it. I've had a good handful of chances to do any of those 3 and I shrugged them off. I think I got a beer on the plane wednesday but my bro said it might be saltwater w/ seltzer. And yeah anyone can get alcohol at any age even make it themselves if they're lucky

[Dr. Acula]

lower drinking age, raise driving age. less kids have died from drinking young than kids who are too dumb to drive. cars are just big bullets.

[Prosthetics]

lower drinking age, raise driving age. less kids have died from drinking young than kids who are too dumb to drive. cars are just big bullets.

I dont think its stupidity that causes accidents, but distractions from friends who are riding with you or are around.

Kids feel the need to show off sometimes or are distracted by chatter, and that costs them dearly.

[Demon Pimp]

I worked in Bars and Nightclubs for 15 years. Age and alcohol are not always relevant. While it was true that the biggest douches were usually the younger male drinkers, I saw lots of stupid and crazed behavior from both sexes and at all age ranges. For some people alcohol seemed to enhance their personality quirks -(angry people thinking they could kick everyones ass, depressed people trying to make everyone a shoulder to cry on) while for others it seemed to be the excuse for letting out all their inhibitions. I dated someone who was rather conservative and almost prudish while sober, but after a few drinks at a party I found her trying to jump my best friend. Classic Jeckyl and Hyde.

The sad fact is that most people want to be free to do what they want, when they want, but when things go wrong they want to blame someone else. Sue the bartender for over serving, most good bartenders know when to cut people off and ask them to call it a night (or day). Sue the company that makes the booze because they make it so enticing, "I'll get some if I drink this", "people will think I'm cool if I drink that". Anyone that drinks alcohol does it by choice. No one has ever held a gun to my head and said "DRINK OR YOU'RE A DEAD MAN!". Most drinkers have at one time or another done something while drinking that when looking back sober they can't belive they did or survived doing. Driving, the drunk fugly hook-up, saying or texting the wrong thing to the wrong person and so on.

If you want booze and you are underage it won't stop you. If you can resist, great. If you're gonna do it, try to be responsible. Avoid driving, alcohol poisoning (dumb asses), and just being an a**-hole in general. If you get caught, don't bitch about the penalty. Part of being responible means being ready to get caught and pay the price.:anim_32: