Rank and points system

[Snowblind]

ok so i pretty much got fed up today on the norm rot server and here is why
1) people who are new to the server, or anyone with less than 2k points, on averarge when they kill me, get between 15-26 points
if i kill someone, i get 2
i think this is ludacris, yes it makes them rank up faster and feel better and makes them want to come back, but i had a 2.56 kdr today and was negative 40 points because of it
meaning they kill me, i gotta make 10 kills to even make that back, w/o them killing me again, i think this should be fixed, if not, well i guess i can live with it, i just dont understand the reason why they get so many

2) what is it with the top 2 people in the ranks? maybe im not seeing it but didnt you guys reset all the stats and there really shouldnt be any way that guy has 7k points, sry to bitch and moan about all this but ive been curious for some time and im frustrated enough to bring it up =/

idc about ranks that much nor do i care about my points but some of this, like i said, seems werid.
i was just looking for some clarification =D

and on a third note
i think you should remove 2fort from the norm rot server since u have a 24/7 2fort server and put granary or hydro(pref granary) in its place on the rotation

[eclyps]

Hey Snow,

The ranking system is set so that to achieve a high rank and maintain it, you must keep up your with your skill. A noob who kills a high ranked player should be rewarded. It's tough to stay in the number 1 spot, but most people like the challenge.

The top 2 people with the ranks... yeah i just noticed that... and tbh I couldn't tell you what happened there. Looks like points were not completely reset for a couple people. But to fix that I would have to reset ranks for everyone and that's not really an option at this point.

I'm going to keep 2fort in the normal rotation server, simply because it brings people in. If you want me to add granary to the rotation I will be more than happy to. The only reason it was taken out was because it was less popular. I will re-add it and see how it plays out this weekend.

Thanks for the comments, and I know the whole rank thing can be frustrating, but come on. You're like rank 3 out of thousands :) You've gotta be proud of that! The people whos stats did not completely reset will eventually even out.

As always, we appreciate the input.

[Snowblind]

as mentioned in a diff thread, they made changes to granary which should be interesting

[Orin Flamestar]

Play a medic and team up with a good player. Your score will go up very fast. Which I think is fine since more people need encouraged to play the class. Good medics are hard to find.

Really I shouldn't be so high. As an engineer, I move my sentry around a lot to throw off the enemy team. I also put my equipment in high risk areas. Engineers get a lot of points for building which I think shouldn't happen. Maybe less or nothing for buildings and more points for sentry kills would be better. It would be nice to get points when players use your teleporters or get healed by so much from your dispenser, but I doubt the point system could keep track of that.

[eclyps]

i think orin just cheats... ;)

[Orin Flamestar]

I lost about 1200 points today if that makes you feel better. :P Had a blast playing a pyro though.

[Zypheron]

Yes, the whole "people playing the server once, going 4-8, and taking massive amounts of points for it" thing really sticks in my craw. Its going to be impossible to rank high if you play a high risk class like scout/spy/pyro unless we start getting better multipliers. Classes like engineer, sniper, and a defensive demo will continue to dominate the charts, especially engie if they keep getting points for just building stuff.

[eclyps]

well, lay some point multipliers out for me. What do you think are the most dominant classes and what do you think are the most underpowered classes? I'm open to messing with the multis :)

[Zypheron]

well, i think that spies should only get points from the sapper if it blows something up, and engies should only get points from sg's and things like that if it kills someone (not just from building it). Perhaps boost the points for destroying engineer stuff to compensate. Maybe decrease points gained from stickies and rockets, up fire points. A flat out boost for objective completion would be nice (would reduce a lot of the kill whores and benefit team oriented play). Hell, even challenging an objective (like flag grabs on 2fort) would be a nice bonus, instead of losing the points that you gained for touching it (not to mention the points you lose for death) when you die.

[eclyps]

hmmm... i'll take your suggestions and see how much I can work with them. I definitely want to up the points for completing an objective at the very least. I'll make a post here when I finish the modification. Thanks

[Vit^pr0n]

Perhaps reduce the amount of points a low ranked player gets for killing a high ranked player by 20-25%? it's just extremely frustrating playing at this rank. I'm a competitive person, but when you kill 10 people without dieing ( Which isn't easy to do ) and a low ranked player kills you, you lose all that work AND -5. Basically everytime I login the server I'm forced to play defensive or hope there's a medic around.

I consider myself a good player, but when it means having to kill 25 people and dieing only once or twice to maintain/gain ranks, it's not my idea of a fun time. If you don't change it that's fine. Just pointing it out there ( Also to explain why I complain alot when I die, and why I hate soldliers and their cheap crit rockets and killing me at full HP with one rocket )

[Orin Flamestar]

I like some of the suggestions here. Just touching the briefcase should yield a lot of points. And even more if you bring it in. It takes a lot of fighting to get to that point usually and I think the point system should recognize that.

At my score, the only way I tend to get sizable points is playing an engineer or a medic. The system for a medic is fine I think, but getting points for building stuff doesn't make sense. More points for sentry kills makes sense. Plus sentry kills aren't that high really now that players know how to fight them effectively.

Other than that it the system doesn't seem too bad. More points for pyro kills maybe since they tend to have to be suicidal to be effective sometimes.

[Kid_Niki]

I don't care about my rank...I just like playing against quality players and getting better. The rank system draws in better players, which is good. But players who stick to classes that bring up their score because it's easier...I dunno...that seems flawed to me.

[Jokerz]

ok before we go anywhere with points. Any changes made would mean a total stat reset on both server... so can you ppl handle that?


-JkZ

[eclyps]

woah, wait... no... i'm not doin that. If they want it changed slightly, fine, but we're not going to reset the ranks completely simply because we made a few adjustments. It will all even itself out in time.

[Jokerz]

ah ok in that case building sentry, tele. or dispener should not be 5 it should be 1 point

Capping flag should be 10 points

[Orin Flamestar]

Stats are nice to see how and what you're doing, but I would have fun on this server even without the point system. I like the people on the server which is why I come back. :)

[eclyps]

awwww. ty orin! <3

well, here are the new point scalers.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/614/rank1il5.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7550/rank2zs7.jpg


comments? concerns?

[saucey]

spoiler alert: it's a pub

[eclyps]

spoiler alert: it's a pub
KaySlay is a flaming homosexual...

[Hellzarmy]

maybe i missed it, but i didnt see the sniper machette on there.

i know this is still a work in progress, but i dont think anyone should be able to gain 25pts on any kill. its just too huge of a pt loss.

[eclyps]

maybe i missed it, but i didnt see the sniper machette on there.

i know this is still a work in progress, but i dont think anyone should be able to gain 25pts on any kill. its just too huge of a pt loss.
where do you see 25 pts on a kill?

[Vit^pr0n]

where do you see 25 pts on a kill?When a low ranked player kills a high ranked player like me :P. Like I said before it's really frustrating. Most of the times I'm killed it's because I'm killed either by a low ranked player spamming, or because the rest of my team is overrun and I'm killed.

Now.. I play a demoman for my points which means I fight right where the action is. As I said before, even if I kill 10 in a row, since I'm so high ranked compared to everyone else I only get 2 points per kill, but when I die.. I lost the 20 points I just earned AND 5 extra points. Now, the amount of points lost ranges from 14-25.

My suggestion is to perhaps let the max amount of points lost from a high ranked player be 15. That's reasonable enough compared to the 25 it is now.

[eclyps]

I have changed the max gained points to 15 through frags.

I have also changed it so that the player who was killed only loses 1/2 of the points the killer gains (they used to lose all points that the killer gained)

Lets see if this helps at all. Let me know if you guys want anything else changed.

[Jokerz]

w00t that means summdoggy will have to play more hours to beat my score thx E my top 10 is locked for a few more weeks.

-JkZ

[Princess]

hehe Jokerz...yes but you play Call of Duty 4 and all I play is TF2...u better put more hours in tf2! =P I'm gaining on u! lol.

[eclyps]

jokerz hasn't touched CoD4. he's a nooblette :)

[Princess]

OHNOEZ! That's it...I will not sleep for four days.

[eclyps]

Oh No! I Missed My 1000 Post Anniversary!!!! Nooooo!!!

[Vit^pr0n]

I have changed the max gained points to 15 through frags.

I have also changed it so that the player who was killed only loses 1/2 of the points the killer gains (they used to lose all points that the killer gained)

Lets see if this helps at all. Let me know if you guys want anything else changed.That's awesome! Thanks this should help alot and make it less frustrating :P

Question: Does this take effect now? Or do you need some kind of server reset? <-- nub with servers

[eclyps]

this should already be working

[Jokerz]

it is in effect now i just checked to make sure.

-JkZ

[Vit^pr0n]

Awesome :)

Thanks again! For once at this rank I actually played without worrying too much about dieing lol.

[fish0]

Snowblind Ahh My Eyes There Snoww My Eyessss Im Blind

[Snowblind]

Snowblind Ahh My Eyes There Snoww My Eyessss Im Blind

what?

also
i took a vacay for a week and i come back and things ive complained about so long ago are changed, but now im like outta the top 10 which means i'll have to come back and be a kill whore again, or just flat out kick ass but whats new meh?

[eclyps]

pffft snowblind kicking ass? HAH! good joke :)

[Snowblind]

pffft snowblind kicking ass? HAH! good joke :)

even i laughed

[eclyps]

even i laughed
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7994/1195355131936uz5.jpg

[shaej]

I just started paying some attention to the points system, I have two questions.

How do these points relate to the scorekeeping done internally by TF2 ... are they two different points systems?

Why only one point for a kill assist? I tend to get a lot more of those than outright kills. For example -- it seems biased against things like sweeping for spies with a pyro (they light on fire, an engineer helps to kill them).

Thank you.

[eclyps]

There's really no way to have a perfectly balanced points system for TF2 because each class has a different strong point and weakness, but it's pretty close right now.

hlstatsx points and in game points are completely different. In game points are based only on kills, while hlstatsx points are based on almost everything you do. every domination, kill, assist, construction, destruction, etc gives you a dif amount of points. And kill points are based on what gun you use. For example, rockets give you no point modifier (x1.0), while a knife will give you a x2 multiplier. You also get points for doing tasks like capturing the intel (10), capturing a point (5), etc.

You also gain/lose points depending on how many points your killed/killer have. You will gain many more points if you kill someone with a large amount of points than you will if you you kill someone with very few points. The exact equasions are below

Killer Points = Killer Points + (Victim Points / Killer Points) × Weapon Modifier × 5

Victim Points = Victim Points - (Victim Points / Killer Points) × Weapon Modifier × 5


I've taken a screenshot of all the point modifiers so you can check out what the exact values are. (also on the previous page)

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/614/rank1il5.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7550/rank2zs7.jpg

[Blonde]

I still think if noobs had to get 1000 kills before regular points, this wouldn't be soo much of a problem. They would have to be server regulars before they could even hurt your score, and if thats the case, maybe they deserve some of the higher-ranked players' scores.

[shaej]

Thanks, E. I'm still a bit foggy on how kill assists are implemented in this points system, however.

NoobHeavy and NoobSoldier both shoot Halfwit. Halfwit dies. Do they both get 1 point for kill assist, or does the multiplier affect kill assists? Does Halfwit lose any points if two or more people take part in killing him?

[eclyps]

the person who deals the final blow will get a kill point, and the person who does only damage will get an assist point. Only the person who gets the kill point will get points based on the killed players score though (i think this is right).

If NoobHeavy and NoobSoldier shoot halfwit, and Heavy does damage but Soldier kills, Heavy will get 1 point only. Soldiers points are calculated below

Halfwit has 30,089 points
Soldier, assuming this is his first kill on our server has 1,000 points

Heavy = 1000 + (30089 / 1000) * 1 * 5
Heavy would get a whopping 150 points, but it's capped so you can only earn 15 points per kill.


Halfwit would then lose half of what his killer gained (15 / 2), which would round up to 8 points.


Lets say Halfwit killed the Heavy who had 1000 points with a flamethrower...

Halfwit = 30089 + (1000 / 30089) * 1.8 * 5
Halfwit would only gain .299 points, which doesn't even count. This shows why it's so tough to remain on top of the rankings.

[ditship]

I don't know if this is possible, but it would be cool if you'd at least get the point modifier score.

Meaning that in this scenario:
Lets say Halfwit killed the Heavy who had 1000 points with a flamethrower...

Halfwit = 30089 + (1000 / 30089) * 1.8 * 5
Halfwit would only gain .299 points, which doesn't even count. This shows why it's so tough to remain on top of the rankings.
Halfwit would get 1.8 points instead of 0.

It seems like you should at least get something for killing someone, since you get 5 points just for being on a capped control point.

[eclyps]

yeah, there will always be flaws, but this is an extreme example. Halfwit is ranked 22 out of 36,000 people.

hmmm.... actually I could be wrong... I think every kill may be 2 points... that's what I have the minimum skill change set at...

[Bob the Builder]

I can't speak for Halfwit, but whenever I kill even a guy who is on the server for the first minute of his short life I get 2 points. What stinks is when there are a ton of new people on the map, I gain 2 for every kill and then lose 7 when I die. So I have to kill 3 people and get a kill assist just to break even :o

But I'm not complaining because I should learn to die less.

[eclyps]

I can't speak for Halfwit, but whenever I kill even a guy who is on the server for the first minute of his short life I get 2 points. What stinks is when there are a ton of new people on the map, I gain 2 for every kill and then lose 7 when I die. So I have to kill 3 people and get a kill assist just to break even :o

But I'm not complaining because I should learn to die less.
lol stop being so good and you'll get more points :)

[shaej]

E: Thank you for the clear explanation.

Bob: It helps to have 5 medics healing you, and two pyros sweeping for spies to your rear-left and rear-right. And to play on a map that has max snipers set to 0.

[Snowblind]

I can't speak for Halfwit, but whenever I kill even a guy who is on the server for the first minute of his short life I get 2 points. What stinks is when there are a ton of new people on the map, I gain 2 for every kill and then lose 7 when I die. So I have to kill 3 people and get a kill assist just to break even :o

But I'm not complaining because I should learn to die less.

or suck less ;)

[shaej]

Meh. Paying attention to points makes it less fun for me, IMO it rewards certain playstyles (defensive demo) and punishes others (suicidal pyro).

Well, plus I suck. That doesn't help either.

[shuusin]

imo the point system is really great and keeps people interested in playing on the same server, read: me.

but the points system absolutely penalizes spies (minus shadizzy), pyros, scouts, and is still open to exploitation from engis chain building/destroying.

i suggest higher multipliers for pyros and scouts, because spies already get bonuses for building broken sappers.

[ditship]

The only thing that has really bugged me is the points for picking up the intel, especially on hall of death.

Usually it takes more than 3 pickups to get the flag back because its such a small map, but the people who help bring the intel out get no points at all! They actually lose a lot of points from dying.

So maybe if you could get like 5 points for picking up intel, and -1 for dropping or something.

You would have to make it -5 for dropping the intel on purpose...which I don't know if thats possible.

[BADog]

The only thing that has really bugged me is the points for picking up the intel, especially on hall of death.

Usually it takes more than 3 pickups to get the flag back because its such a small map, but the people who help bring the intel out get no points at all! They actually lose a lot of points from dying.

So maybe if you could get like 5 points for picking up intel, and -1 for dropping or something.

You would have to make it -5 for dropping the intel on purpose...which I don't know if thats possible.

To be accurate the amount of points you get from picking up the intel is taken away if you drop it.

You get +X points, but then -X points if you drop it. This is assuming it is not the first pick up from the enemy base.

[shaej]

imo the point system is really great and keeps people interested in playing on the same server, read: me.

I agree, I had fun following it for a while. But I found myself paying too much attention to it.

but the points system absolutely penalizes spies (minus shadizzy), pyros, scouts, and is still open to exploitation from engis chain building/destroying.

There are several other ways to game the points I won't go into, so as not to give bad ideas to others. (One innocent example ... playing in the 3-5 CST time period is generally a bad idea because of all the players with 1500 or so points who spam rockets and grenades, taking away -7 every time they land a random crit).

I agree about pyros (I don't play the other classes much). One of the more effective ways to break up a phalanx of attackers is to come up behind them with a pyro, leap around and spray as many of them with flame as you can ... hopefully killing their medic. That's not a good way to get points, though. And you might just end up getting one-shotted before you close in on the group.

I'm not suggesting that the system should be amended, nor am I complaining (really!), I'm just editorializing.

[shuusin]

The only thing that has really bugged me is the points for picking up the intel, especially on hall of death.

Usually it takes more than 3 pickups to get the flag back because its such a small map, but the people who help bring the intel out get no points at all! They actually lose a lot of points from dying.

So maybe if you could get like 5 points for picking up intel, and -1 for dropping or something.

You would have to make it -5 for dropping the intel on purpose...which I don't know if thats possible.

if you get points for picking it up and losing less to drop it, you could just spam pickup/drop it and get millions of points per hour. unless of course theres a different tag for picking it up initially or picking it up off an intentional drop.

[ditship]

To be accurate the amount of points you get from picking up the intel is taken away if you drop it.

You get +X points, but then -X points if you drop it. This is assuming it is not the first pick up from the enemy base.

Thats what I'm saying.....you don't get any points...


if you get points for picking it up and losing less to drop it, you could just spam pickup/drop it and get millions of points per hour. unless of course theres a different tag for picking it up initially or picking it up off an intentional drop.

Yeah...thats what I meant about getting -5 if you drop it on purpose

[Halfwit]

i fail at reading this thread since when did i become a topic on here ! lol

on a serious note i like to see pyro's adjusted a bit we get screwed from asshole players who kill themselves so they do not burn to death mean while they crit rocket you just before they do it you lose 7 gain 0

i know this is just a evil of the class but maybe they could and should be rewarded more for kills !?

thanks
Half

[Blonde]

I was thinking abou this the other day as well. Pyro assists should be almost as heavily weighted as medic assists.

[BADog]

Thats what I'm saying.....you don't get any points...



Yeah...thats what I meant about getting -5 if you drop it on purpose

Yeah, I figured. But the minor in math got the better of me and I had pull out the algebra on it. You implied it but did not state it. I just wanted to get anal.

[eclyps]

right now, if you pick up the flag, you automatically gain 2 points. If you drop it, you automatically lose 2 points. Unfortunately there's no way to give points to those who pick it up but then get killed without having it exploited. If you would like me to raise this, i will, but the player will always lose the points once it is dropped.

As for the pyro. the flamethrower point mod is at 2.00. I will bump it up to 2.60 and make all pyro kill assists worth 2 points instead of 1.

Anything else?

[Halfwit]

right now, if you pick up the flag, you automatically gain 2 points. If you drop it, you automatically lose 2 points. Unfortunately there's no way to give points to those who pick it up but then get killed without having it exploited. If you would like me to raise this, i will, but the player will always lose the points once it is dropped.

As for the pyro. the flamethrower point mod is at 2.00. I will bump it up to 2.60 and make all pyro kill assists worth 2 points instead of 1.

Anything else?

i love you will you have my babies ?

[eclyps]

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/data/media/1/8_ugly_people.jpg

[Halfwit]

lol dude that is some scary shit

[shaej]

As for the pyro. the flamethrower point mod is at 2.00. I will bump it up to 2.60 and make all pyro kill assists worth 2 points instead of 1.

Yes, can you change Shadizzy's kill mod to .1 please?

Kthx.

[shuusin]

I was thinking abou this the other day as well. Pyro assists should be almost as heavily weighted as medic assists.

I second this, at least 2 points if not 4

[eclyps]

I second this, at least 2 points if not 4
http://www.stompfest.com/forum/showthread.php?p=26085#post26085

[shuusin]

maybe it should be like 2.03 or something

[eclyps]

2.02. that's my final offer...

[shaej]

2.02. that's my final offer...

2.02 for chattel, and 4.02 for subscribers? ;p

[elemental00]

pyro is my fave if you couldnt tell..but i have been playing ng for the aforementioned reasons of getting killed too much. at best the pyro has 2 melee weapons and a medium range pea shooter. i still love watching flaming scouts fall from the sky though...mmmhmmm

[Shadizzy]

I don't think spy is unbalanced :? a spy isn't a gung ho character and is independent from the rest of his team, he can choose his style of play and play as dumb or as smart as he wants. I am retarded and play with a wanton disregard for points to the point where I target the best players in the most complicated situations yet still somehow come out positive :D

[Halfwit]

Shadizzy loves to get burned and wrenched by me i know this from the fact he is always around me somewhere

2nd eclyps i was still getting 1 point an assit last night dont know if you had changed it yet just a fyi and thanks

[shuusin]

I don't think spy is unbalanced :? a spy isn't a gung ho character and is independent from the rest of his team, he can choose his style of play and play as dumb or as smart as he wants. I am retarded and play with a wanton disregard for points to the point where I target the best players in the most complicated situations yet still somehow come out positive :D

short version: shuusin kills me 7 times, i kill him once and i'm +points

serious post: its not to say that spies are imbalanced or anything, but its more to say that certain classes, scout, pyro, spy, are at dramatically higher risk, and don't really offer any awards hlstatsx wise.

[elemental00]

Shadizzy loves to get burned and wrenched by me i know this from the fact he is always around me somewhere

2nd eclyps i was still getting 1 point an assit last night dont know if you had changed it yet just a fyi and thanks

i too today am still getting 1 point per assist as a pyro...either way, ill still play my fav class..

[eclyps]

i too today am still getting 1 point per assist as a pyro...either way, ill still play my fav class..
hmmm... let me double check things...

[eclyps]

try again. should be good to go now

[Halfwit]

still 1 point per assist as of this post time

[elemental00]

still 1 point per assist as of this post time

same here..just got done on 24/7 fort ...1 pt per assist

edit....but its x2.6 per kill now....niiiicccceeee..

[shaej]

Shadizzy loves to get burned and wrenched by me i know this from the fact he is always around me somewhere

Demand flowers and candy from him next time.

[*dianne*]

I certainly don't mind the 4 pts i get with asst as a medic, 5 would be better though OHOH and maybe a girl handicap!?!? cause we all know that girls are inherently bad at video games :rolleyes:

[SiameseDream]

I don't know Dianne. There is already a hint of androgyny in these servers when the 14 year old boys get on the mic. I don't know if we'd be able to tell who's a girl or not. 1.00x for you! :p

Are any of the following point bonuses even possible. If you could do class+event bonuses, we could come up with some interesting stuff:

* +5 points for wrenching (or shotgunning) a spy
* +5 points for spy backstabbing spy
* -10 points for ubercharging opposing spy (+10 to spy getting the uber)
* +2 for pryo flaming a pyro
* +2 for sniper defending the point
* +2 for multi-kill with sticky bombs

etc...

[Jokerz]

I don't know Dianne. There is already a hint of androgyny in these servers when the 14 year old boys get on the mic. I don't know if we'd be able to tell who's a girl or not. 1.00x for you! :p

Are any of the following point bonuses even possible. If you could do class+event bonuses, we could come up with some interesting stuff:

* +5 points for wrenching (or shotgunning) a spy
* +5 points for spy backstabbing spy
* -10 points for ubercharging opposing spy (+10 to spy getting the uber)
* +2 for pryo flaming a pyro
* +2 for sniper defending the point
* +2 for multi-kill with sticky bombs

etc...


cool idea but not possible with hlx

[Shadizzy]

How abouttttttt

+35 Killing that a-hole that called you a "suck ass spy"


:'(

[*dianne*]

LOL!! or anyone that pisses you off for calling you a nasty name for that matter....

[Anathema]

I certainly don't mind the 4 pts i get with asst as a medic, 5 would be better though OHOH and maybe a girl handicap!?!? cause we all know that girls are inherently bad at video games :rolleyes:

I'm ALL for increasing the medic assist points to 5.

[shuusin]

I'm ALL for increasing the medic assist points to 5.

i dunno; i know why the medic assist is there, and of course i agree with it to get more medics healing, but its pretty easy to climb the rankings as a medic. i used to heal vit pron back in the day to learn how to play demo and i went up like 2000 points per session

imo its good as it is and doesn't really need a buff

[Bobalicios]

At 4pts each for a medic assist if you get a 2:1 kill to assist ratio your going up 1pt per life. Can't even get close to that as an offensive class.

[Dr. Acula]

omg rank doesn't matter and you people shouldn't really care this much.

[shuusin]

yes but many people (read: me) keep playing on these servers because of points, and that trickles down to getting to know people, joining forums, and subscribing (read: also me)

[Dr. Acula]

Oh, I know about stat-whores. I just don't get it.

[shaej]

At 4pts each for a medic assist if you get a 2:1 kill to assist ratio your going up 1pt per life. Can't even get close to that as an offensive class.

The limitation on this is that when you play a medic too much, your brain begins to sizzle.

PsssssszzzssssszSSszzzzssssss

Then you switch to another class and start shooting things :-)

[Snowblind]

Hey Snow,

The ranking system is set so that to achieve a high rank and maintain it, you must keep up your with your skill. A noob who kills a high ranked player should be rewarded. It's tough to stay in the number 1 spot, but most people like the challenge.

The top 2 people with the ranks... yeah i just noticed that... and tbh I couldn't tell you what happened there. Looks like points were not completely reset for a couple people. But to fix that I would have to reset ranks for everyone and that's not really an option at this point.

I'm going to keep 2fort in the normal rotation server, simply because it brings people in. If you want me to add granary to the rotation I will be more than happy to. The only reason it was taken out was because it was less popular. I will re-add it and see how it plays out this weekend.

Thanks for the comments, and I know the whole rank thing can be frustrating, but come on. You're like rank 3 out of thousands :) You've gotta be proud of that! The people whos stats did not completely reset will eventually even out.

As always, we appreciate the input.

oh the days when i was in the top 10
now i dont play as much and can barely keep in the top 70 =(
heck i remember when i was #1 for like 2 weeks then vit passed me then i had RL issues oy vey
im surprized this thread has gotten so big and tbqh, the input into the points and how the system works is great
tl;dr Nostalgia

[Jetrel]

my biggest problem is engis building their way to #1, rankings should be wiped and the points you get for building shit should be wiped aswell.
tired of watching engis building and destroying their shit for points.

[*dianne*]

They lose points for destroying their buildings. You earn 2 to build and lose 2 for destroying, it's a break even situation. So they can't "climb" when the do that.

[Jetrel]

had the rankings been reset since then?

[*dianne*]

I was an ng today and lost points for destroying my buildings. If you see people doing that they are stupid and or blind and or can't read that they are not gaining anything lol

[Jetrel]

heh havent seen anyone doing it recently, i just remember back when the rankings were all under 10,000pts ppl did it.

[eclyps]

no, ranks haven't been reset and we don't plan on resetting them. Points degrade over a period of time, so if someone spammed the engy exploit, their points will slowly go down over time (assuming they don't play here anymore)

[Shadizzy]

+2 for dispenser sap is cruel and unusual punishment :'( You are stealing the food from my children's mouths!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :X

;D

[Soka]

I learned long ago to screw worrying about points. The thing I love most about TF2 is that Deaths no longer show on the global leader board for each match, meaning no one can be like "HAHA LOOK I HAVE THE BEST K:D RATIO I AM THE BEST" and instead encourages people to take risky actions, or run around just meleeing, for the fun, not for the K:D ratio.

The stats sort of de-evolve us back to worrying about things like K:D ratio and such.

Summary: I play medic for the points. I'm addicted too. :(

[Snowblind]

bump
can we has point reset soon?

[Timmah!]

Why?

But holy ballz, I've never read this thread before. I have 1 request: Change the point modifier for the pyro's base flamethrower back to 2 (at the most!) - especially now that they don't have the damage dropoff and Valve fixed the suicide thing. Hell, the pyro shotgun is only 1.50x. No wonder David plays pyro so much... point whore! Wait, what decides the weapon multiplier if someone suicides?

[Herron]

Wait, what decides the weapon multiplier if someone suicides?

Dunno what happens if you actually use "kill" or "explode" to commit suicide, but if you blow yourself up (i.e., soldier or demo) it counts as if the other person killed you with the weapon you blew yourself up with.

Example: Heavy hits me with 1 bullet and does 12 damage, and I unload 4 rockets into him point blank and blow myself up in the process -- he gets credit for killing me, and consequently I get penalized for being killed, with a rocket (modifier 1.00).

... and generally I get no points of my own because he has somehow miraculously survived 4 point blank rockets :anim_20:

[ditship]

... and generally I get no points of my own because he has somehow miraculously survived 4 point blank rockets :anim_20:


//Team Fortress 2 Damage Calculation Function
//Pre: A player has received damage from another player.
//Post: Player's health has been adjusted accordingly.

int CalculateDamage()
{
return (rand() % 300);
}

[JMaster299]

Resetting points is not fair to the people who worked hard to earn them. I may have only been here for a few months but I am proud that I am about to break the Top 100. If you reset the points then they lose all meaning. The points system could use some adjusting. I wouldn't reduce the points given to lower players but reduce the points lost by higher players or all of them. Sure some would argure that this would help the top people stay on top, but it also helps others catch them. If you really are better then they are you can actually pass them up and won't be held back by a bunch of new people taking away 7 points per kill. Use the points system to reward everyone and not punish the good players.

[Tango]

[quote=JMaster299;57012]Resetting points is not fair to the people who worked hard to earn them. I may have only been here for a few months but I am proud that I am about to break the Top 100. quote]

Good god, it seemed to take me forever to break top 100. If they reset I think I would lose all reason to play...... naw, I think my new reason would be to annoy Sway.

[Glork]

Good god, it seemed to take me forever to break top 100. If they reset I think I would lose all reason to play...... naw, I think my new reason would be to perish by Glork's hand.
Fixed that one for ya.

[Tango]

Well, you do have like a 2kpd over me right now, so I can't argue that. Even though it's only 5/10

[Glork]

Yes, usually you're buffing me. :D

[Tango]

And I like it!

[Glork]

I love this doctor!

[Brandname]

I don't like how rockets have a lower point modifier than the minigun and stickies. :(

[Timmah!]

I don't like how rockets have a lower point modifier than the minigun and stickies. :(
I don't understand the reason for point modifiers at all. A kill is a kill.

[PandaBear Assassin]

I don't understand the reason for point modifiers at all. A kill is a kill.

Honestly, I had no idea that point modifiers even existed before people started posting in this thread recently. I also find it amusing that the pyro's base flame thrower has the highest point modifier. Hmmm...I think I will invest some time into becoming a better pyro lol. My stats are completely dominated by soldier anywayz. 109hrs as soldier. The next highest is 25hrs as sniper!! lol

[Snowblind]

70+ hrs engi....50+ solgie... 30+ sniper/pyro.....
then BLEEEEEEEEEEEECCh
i think point modifiers are fine, but u should give more points for building a sentry if you're on offense, if thats possible

[godslayer]

Good god, it seemed to take me forever to break top 100. If they reset I think I would lose all reason to play...... naw, I think my new reason would be to annoy Sway.

No kidding. As I get higher in the rankings it is becoming increasingly difficult to get anywhere now. The other night I had played on the 2fort server for 2 hours and at the end had a 3:1 kdr (65% soldier, 35% medic). I was at the top of the scoreboard and top of the leader board at the end of the round but I was actually DOWN 10 points according to the HLSTATSX information. Likely because I'd only be getting 2-4 points per kill while losing 6-8 points each time I got killed.

I'd rather not see stats reset....too much work to get back up. I'm shooting for the 100's too!

[Brandname]

No kidding. As I get higher in the rankings it is becoming increasingly difficult to get anywhere now. The other night I had played on the 2fort server for 2 hours and at the end had a 3:1 kdr (65% soldier, 35% medic). I was at the top of the scoreboard and top of the leader board at the end of the round but I was actually DOWN 10 points according to the HLSTATSX information. Likely because I'd only be getting 2-4 points per kill while losing 6-8 points each time I got killed.

I'd rather not see stats reset....too much work to get back up. I'm shooting for the 100's too!


That's weird. I can still play a couple hours and net a thousand points or so. With those kinds of numbers I can't believe your score would be going down. If you're playing some medic and still netting a 3 kpd, your score should definitely be going up I think.

[PandaBear Assassin]

I can still play a couple hours and net a thousand points or so.

Show off. :)

[Brandname]

Show off. :)

I just meant with worse numbers than he had.

Not a whole lot has been impressive about my play lately, lol.

[godslayer]

That's weird. I can still play a couple hours and net a thousand points or so. With those kinds of numbers I can't believe your score would be going down. If you're playing some medic and still netting a 3 kpd, your score should definitely be going up I think.

I figured so too. But the nuumbers didn't lie...so I went over to the FRS and played at the same level, though with higher ranked people around me to kill, and ended up 700 points higher by the end of the night. Even then, I'd still watch as my ranking would stagnate when getting killed by the wrong people. I'm all for giving the lower ranked player MORE points for killing a higher ranked player but the penalty to the higher ranked player is kind of steep. I bet it would have been a 1000-1200 point night had I not had some stretches where's my score dropped a quick 100 points. It only takes getting killed by 12 noobs or the oh-so-wonderful finishing off points they get for going kamikaze on a soldier now. Kind of stupid that they can hit me once with the shotgun, come at me like an idiot while I kill another noob next to them to get 2 whole points, and then by the time I get back to the first guy they are so close that a tiny bit of my own splash is enough to kill me and gives them 15 points and take 7 away from me. So that battle just equated to -5 points.....and that's if I am lucky enough to get a kill in during a busy fight.

[Brandname]

I figured so too. But the nuumbers didn't lie...so I went over to the FRS and played at the same level, though with higher ranked people around me to kill, and ended up 700 points higher by the end of the night. Even then, I'd still watch as my ranking would stagnate when getting killed by the wrong people. I'm all for giving the lower ranked player MORE points for killing a higher ranked player but the penalty to the higher ranked player is kind of steep.

Oh, maybe that's it. I always join up the server that has all of my friends on it (which usually tend to be higher ranked players), so maybe that's the difference. It's also hard if you play as a soldier, since rockets are the only weapon without a points modifier bonus. I can get more points, in a shorter amount of time, with fewer kills, when I play as sniper instead of soldier. Moving up the ranks as a soldier is painfully slow.

[PandaBear Assassin]

It's also hard if you play as a soldier, since rockets are the only weapon without a points modifier bonus. I can get more points, in a shorter amount of time, with fewer kills, when I play as sniper instead of soldier. Moving up the ranks as a soldier is painfully slow.

Now, the majority of my current rank has been attained by playing soldier. I'm at 114 (Unitl I get home that is...:fighting0002:) You saying that makes me wonder what rank I would be at if I had played other classes with higher point modifiers more since I started playing TF2.

[Timmah!]

godslayer speaks the truth. I can usually get a pretty decent kpd on 2fort (especially if my team has a half-way decent medic), but not get hardly any points because a) there are so few regulars with enough points to give me more than 2 pts per kill and b) it's relatively rare for either intel to get touched; so there aren't many team bonuses. On IRS/FRS, there are lots of team points for caps/blocks to more than make up for the lower kpd.

I still think the flamethrower modifier needs to drop quite a bit. It's pretty common to see a pyro on the top of the in-game scoreboard nowadays.

[Brandname]

Now, the majority of my current rank has been attained by playing soldier. I'm at 114 (Unitl I get home that is...:fighting0002:) You saying that makes me wonder what rank I would be at if I had played other classes with higher point modifiers more since I started playing TF2.

Depends on how good you are at the other classes. ;)

But the flamethrower will give you over two and a half times as many points as rockets will for the same number of kills, so I have seen some career pyros move up the ranks pretty quickly.

[PandaBear Assassin]

godslayer speaks the truth. I can usually get a pretty decent kpd on 2fort (especially if my team has a half-way decent medic), but not get hardly any points because a) there are so few regulars with enough points to give me more than 2 pts per kill and b) it's relatively rare for either intel to get touched; so there aren't many team bonuses. On IRS/FRS, there are lots of team points for caps/blocks to more than make up for the lower kpd.

I still think the flamethrower modifier needs to drop quite a bit. It's pretty common to see a pyro on the top of the in-game scoreboard nowadays.

Yea, I must say, I hate in when I in one of my super agressive soldier moods and I go in kill 3 people, then get killed. Only to find out, that I got 6 points for killing those three people BUT lost 7 points for getting killed by one person lol. But i guess the point is to condition you to be able to kill the 3 people without getting killed. Which, I have definitely gotten better at.

[PandaBear Assassin]

Depends on how good you are at the other classes. ;)

But the flamethrower will give you over two and a half times as many points as rockets will for the same number of kills, so I have seen some career pyros move up the ranks pretty quickly.

Ha ha ha. Well, I'm actually pretty decent at all of them. But next down from soldier, I would have to say that sniper is my next best. I just don't play it enough to sharpen my skills to what I know they could be. Plus, I like to be in the "heart of the battlefield". Next down from sniper would pyro and medic. But again, I just don't play them that often because I have so much fun playing soldier. But I'm gonna start working on that tonight :)

2 1/2 times??! Wow, time to play pyro!

[Timmah!]

...I wish I got 6 points per kill. About the only time I see that anymore is if I kill a top4 player with a melee weapon... and that doesn't happen very often!

[PandaBear Assassin]

...I wish I got 6 points per kill. About the only time I see that anymore is if I kill a top4 player with a melee weapon... and that doesn't happen very often!

Yea Me too. I only get 2 per kill. Unless, like I was saying in my previous post, I go in and kill 3 people to get 6 and hope I don't die cause I'll lose 7! :(

[Snowblind]

tbqh, the stats have come a long way, you use to lose as many as they gained, up to a max of about 26ish, so playin back then, and bein top, was a bitch
i think that you lose half of what they gain is great and very balanced, the point modifier on the pyro is good because they get fucked from a distance, it makes it fair to carrer pyros, whom normally have a low kdr, though that may have changed since the pryo patch

[PandaBear Assassin]

tbqh, the stats have come a long way, you use to lose as many as they gained, up to a max of about 26ish, so playin back then, and bein top, was a bitch
i think that you lose half of what they gain is great and very balanced, the point modifier on the pyro is good because they get fucked from a distance, it makes it fair to carrer pyros, whom normally have a low kdr, though that may have changed since the pryo patch

Damn, well, if that was the case then disregard my previous complaints.

[8bit]

Back off heathens.. Don't touch my flamethrowers' modifiers. :P

[Snowblind]

on a side note, someone should sticky this, if you just read through all the pages
it is an excellent resource on how the point system works as well as great feedback from the SF administration team.
tl;dr its a point system guide for new people

[Snowblind]

so if u read pages 3 and 4, you see E meant to change pyro kill assists to 2points instead of 1...its still just one point
fix it :sign0009:
:anim_37:
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[Chord]

Being a good medic is a great way to get points at high point levels, since it is a static 4 points per assist & 5 points per uber. Also, the better you are, the more CP based points you get, because you should be surviving the fights over the CPs.


Also, I gained ~50 points in about a minute with David on the 2fort server yesterday when we were both medic. It was awesome. I even got an achievement unlocked!

[Timmah!]

Being a good medic is a great way to get points at high point levels, since it is a static 4 points per assist & 5 points per uber. Also, the worse your opponent is, the more CP based points you get, because you should be surviving the fights over the CPs.
fixt. The better players know to target medics first - (unless you're a heavy going against a soldier/demo+medic combo at medium-short range, then you want to kill the soldier/demo ASAP). I will also play medic when there are some decent players on my team (that know to protect their medic). If I don't recognize anyone on the team, and it's looking like a steamroll in the making, I will play an assault class and plead for a couple other people to play medic.

Anyhoo... back to the pyro debate. The 2.60 modifier was before the pyro update came out. Since then, the base flamethrower has been upgraded a) to significantly decrease the falloff damage and b) given the compression blast for better self defense against soldiers/demos. Perhaps most importantly, the problem with suicides has been changed to give credit to the person that dealt damage most recently. So people don't suicide anymore - giving pyros more credit for kills. I'm simply stating that the point modifier should be adjusted accordingly. Once again, good pyros have no problem getting a good kpd. Sure it took considerable skill in the past, but the updates have adjusted that. Case-in-point: how many threads have we had arguing that the pyro is over-powered now?

I actually think 1.50 is reasonable, and 1.20 (max!) for the backburner.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all about nerfing the pyros - let's just be fair. And on that note, I would even agree that demo stickies should have the point modifier decreased to 1.00. They do just as mush damage as rockets, and a demoman can fire 8 in a row instead of only 4. Plus it doesn't require much skill to sticky-trap a doorway. The minigun should be 1.00 as well. I get just as high a kpd with heavy as I do demoman or soldier. I expect this to be fixed by the time I get back from playing army. ;)

[PandaBear Assassin]

fixt. The better players know to target medics first - (unless you're a heavy going against a soldier/demo+medic combo at medium-short range, then you want to kill the soldier/demo ASAP). I will also play medic when there are some decent players on my team (that know to protect their medic). If I don't recognize anyone on the team, and it's looking like a steamroll in the making, I will play an assault class and plead for a couple other people to play medic.

Anyhoo... back to the pyro debate. The 2.60 modifier was before the pyro update came out. Since then, the base flamethrower has been upgraded a) to significantly decrease the falloff damage and b) given the compression blast for better self defense against soldiers/demos. Perhaps most importantly, the problem with suicides has been changed to give credit to the person that dealt damage most recently. So people don't suicide anymore - giving pyros more credit for kills. I'm simply stating that the point modifier should be adjusted accordingly. Once again, good pyros have no problem getting a good kpd. Sure it took considerable skill in the past, but the updates have adjusted that. Case-in-point: how many threads have we had arguing that the pyro is over-powered now?

I actually think 1.50 is reasonable, and 1.20 (max!) for the backburner.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all about nerfing the pyros - let's just be fair. And on that note, I would even agree that demo stickies should have the point modifier decreased to 1.00. They do just as mush damage as rockets, and a demoman can fire 8 in a row instead of only 4. Plus it doesn't require much skill to sticky-trap a doorway. The minigun should be 1.00 as well. I get just as high a kpd with heavy as I do demoman or soldier. I expect this to be fixed by the time I get back from playing army. ;)

hmm...I'm not too sure about this one. I'm a little shaky on the Air blast being given to the base flamethrower. But I feel like the pyro is incredibly handicapped when it comes to both attacking from a distance and defending from a distance. Yea true, it has the air blast but that can only do so much against a barrage of projectiles. Cause I've killed several pyros (with the air blast) by just shooting more than one rocket at a time at them. In that regard, I really think the air blast is primarily meant to give the pyro a better chance at actually getting close enough to do damage or creating enough space between the pyro and the enemy to get away. But even with that, I still think they are at a natural disadvantage. Thus, why the pryo's point modifier is higher. Just my 2 cents.

[Brandname]

hmm...I'm not too sure about this one. I'm a little shaky on the Air blast being given to the base flamethrower. But I feel like the pyro is incredibly handicapped when it comes to both attacking from a distance and defending from a distance. Yea true, it has the air blast but that can only do so much against a barrage of projectiles. Cause I've killed several pyros (with the air blast) by just shooting more than one rocket at a time at them. In that regard, I really think the air blast is primarily meant to give the pyro a better chance at actually getting close enough to do damage or creating enough space between the pyro and the enemy to get away. But even with that, I still think they are at a natural disadvantage. Thus, why the pryo's point modifier is higher. Just my 2 cents.

I must learn your secrets.

[PandaBear Assassin]

I must learn your secrets.

huh? I've seen you do this PLENTY of times. Actually from seeing you and a couple other people do it, is how I learned about the strategy.

[Brandname]

huh? I've seen you do this PLENTY of times. Actually from seeing you and a couple other people do it, is how I learned about the strategy.

I was just referring to shooting more than 1 rocket at once. That would be awesome.

[godslayer]

I was just referring to shooting more than 1 rocket at once. That would be awesome.


It's easy when you use the same h4x he does.:fighting0036:

[PickleSurprise!]

Soldier has let me climb pretty easily i suppose.. but spy more than anything. sappin and stabbin' is what brought me to under 130 now =O. I want to break a hundred by the end of the week hahaha

[Timmah!]

hmm...I'm not too sure about this one. I'm a little shaky on the Air blast being given to the base flamethrower. But I feel like the pyro is incredibly handicapped when it comes to both attacking from a distance and defending from a distance. Yea true, it has the air blast but that can only do so much against a barrage of projectiles. Cause I've killed several pyros (with the air blast) by just shooting more than one rocket at a time at them. In that regard, I really think the air blast is primarily meant to give the pyro a better chance at actually getting close enough to do damage or creating enough space between the pyro and the enemy to get away. But even with that, I still think they are at a natural disadvantage. Thus, why the pryo's point modifier is higher. Just my 2 cents.

Where have you been the last month and a half? Would you still be seeing 4+ pyros on a team if they were crippled? I think your perception maybe skewed since you're a halfway decent soldier and play that class a lot - which SHOULD fare well against pyros. But there are plenty of players that know how to play pyro properly and know to avoid a head-on confrontation with a soldier...and when that isn't an option, know to dodge your rockets (or charge around a corner after they see 4 rockets zip by, knowing they'll catch you reloading). The compression blast should only be used in certain situations. Anyway, I meant to point out that pyros get plenty of kills on medics, spies, demomen, and can rack up tons of kills with an uber. Do I need to post the screenshot of me with 8 dominations as pyro BEFORE the pyro update again?

2.60 point modifier is redonkulous.

[Bobalicios]

Where have you been the last month and a half? Would you still be seeing 4+ pyros on a team if they were crippled? I think your perception maybe skewed since you're a halfway decent soldier and play that class a lot - which SHOULD fare well against pyros. But there are plenty of players that know how to play pyro properly and know to avoid a head-on confrontation with a soldier...and when that isn't an option, know to dodge your rockets (or charge around a corner after they see 4 rockets zip by, knowing they'll catch you reloading). The compression blast should only be used in certain situations. Anyway, I meant to point out that pyros get plenty of kills on medics, spies, demomen, and can rack up tons of kills with an uber. Do I need to post the screenshot of me with 8 dominations as pyro BEFORE the pyro update again?

2.60 point modifier is redonkulous.

I agree, all I am saying is Flamethrower 2.60, blutsauger 1.50. If a medic actually manages to kill someone they get like half of the modifier? I cry foul :D

[elemental00]

I agree, all I am saying is Flamethrower 2.60, blutsauger 1.50. If a medic actually manages to kill someone they get like half of the modifier? I cry foul :D

says the guy who has been a rampant medic..hha..i agree..the blut needs a bump....ANYTHING the medic uses to kill someone besides the person he is healing needs a bump..but those needles are NASTY..crit or not, get caught anywhere up close and you get the super aids..ha.

side note..i played pyro long before i even understood the points system. i dont care what the multiplier is.. i have fun when i play it. we can all agree that being in the top half (let alone top 100) is hard enough. but it was set up to be that way.

[Bobalicios]

says the guy who has been a rampant medic..hha..i agree..the blut needs a bump....ANYTHING the medic uses to kill someone besides the person he is healing needs a bump..but those needles are NASTY..crit or not, get caught anywhere up close and you get the super aids..ha.

side note..i played pyro long before i even understood the points system. i dont care what the multiplier is.. i have fun when i play it. we can all agree that being in the top half (let alone top 100) is hard enough. but it was set up to be that way.

In no way was my comment done in my own self interest....
:sign0103:

[8bit]

I agree, all I am saying is Flamethrower 2.60, blutsauger 1.50. If a medic actually manages to kill someone they get like half of the modifier? I cry foul :D

This is to encourage healing/uber-Building play over regular combat play. Which I agree with.

[JMaster299]

Where have you been the last month and a half? Would you still be seeing 4+ pyros on a team if they were crippled? I think your perception maybe skewed since you're a halfway decent soldier and play that class a lot - which SHOULD fare well against pyros. But there are plenty of players that know how to play pyro properly and know to avoid a head-on confrontation with a soldier...and when that isn't an option, know to dodge your rockets (or charge around a corner after they see 4 rockets zip by, knowing they'll catch you reloading). The compression blast should only be used in certain situations. Anyway, I meant to point out that pyros get plenty of kills on medics, spies, demomen, and can rack up tons of kills with an uber. Do I need to post the screenshot of me with 8 dominations as pyro BEFORE the pyro update again?

2.60 point modifier is redonkulous.

QTF! I play most of my time as a Demo, this makes Pyros and Scouts my most hated classes to fight against. This has become even worse with the Air Cannon and the "Finishing" points!! Pyros are fast enough to make it tough to hit them on the run with Nades and like Scouts the Pyro just rushes you. Like most people my first reaction is to shoot at the person rushing me, the Pyro sets me on fire for .000001 seconds and my Nade hits him point blank with enough damage to kill me but he walks away with 1/4 his health and a kill. The Air Cannon makes this even worse because as a Demo I used to be able to keep my distance but now the Pyro can just shoot my nades back in my face. Up close I'm dead and far away my nades are rendered harmless by a blast of air. It's a win-win for the Pyro and he needs a negative point modifier or something to balance this crap out. To add insult to injury Pyros can just run through sticky traps with their air cannon making it tougher yet to kill them.

Now I am not saying I can't kill Pyros and Scouts but I am saying the Pyro is much more powerful then some people try to claim. That don't need any extra help earning points. I forget who it was but I agree with who ever said all kills should get the same points. We can argue how easy or difficult it is to kill people with any specific weapon or class so to avoid these issues don't give one class more points for a kill over another. Extra points for melee kills is broken too since it has been shown different melee weapons do different damage, have different ranges and crit at different rates. This makes them no different then any other weapon so keep a kill a kill, even a melee. Although I do agree giving extra points for Medic assists to encourage people to play the class.

[PandaBear Assassin]

I was just referring to shooting more than 1 rocket at once. That would be awesome.

lol yea I guess I kinda said that wrong.

[Prosthetics]

I don't understand the reason for point modifiers at all. A kill is a kill.

A backstab or a malee kill is clearly harder to get, thus more points are awarded. If there were no point modifiers, everyone would be playing demo and soldier.

[JMaster299]

A backstab or a malee kill is clearly harder to get, thus more points are awarded. If there were no point modifiers, everyone would be playing demo and soldier.

Giving more points to the Pyros, a reflected projectile kill gets 4 points. One trick I have learned for points is destroying as much equipment as I can playing Demo and Heavy. Killing a SG gives you 5 points and you get like 2 for all other equipment. A lot of people will run right past equipment trying to get kills and I'll gladly take everything else out.

[Glork]

Giving more points to the Pyros, a reflected projectile kill gets 4 points. One trick I have learned for points is destroying as much equipment as I can playing Demo and Heavy. Killing a SG gives you 5 points and you get like 2 for all other equipment. A lot of people will run right past equipment trying to get kills and I'll gladly take everything else out.Yeah, this. I do love blowing things up.

[PandaBear Assassin]

Where have you been the last month and a half? Would you still be seeing 4+ pyros on a team if they were crippled? I think your perception maybe skewed since you're a halfway decent soldier and play that class a lot - which SHOULD fare well against pyros. But there are plenty of players that know how to play pyro properly and know to avoid a head-on confrontation with a soldier...and when that isn't an option, know to dodge your rockets (or charge around a corner after they see 4 rockets zip by, knowing they'll catch you reloading). The compression blast should only be used in certain situations. Anyway, I meant to point out that pyros get plenty of kills on medics, spies, demomen, and can rack up tons of kills with an uber. Do I need to post the screenshot of me with 8 dominations as pyro BEFORE the pyro update again?

2.60 point modifier is redonkulous.

QTF! I play most of my time as a Demo, this makes Pyros and Scouts my most hated classes to fight against. This has become even worse with the Air Cannon and the "Finishing" points!! Pyros are fast enough to make it tough to hit them on the run with Nades and like Scouts the Pyro just rushes you. Like most people my first reaction is to shoot at the person rushing me, the Pyro sets me on fire for .000001 seconds and my Nade hits him point blank with enough damage to kill me but he walks away with 1/4 his health and a kill. The Air Cannon makes this even worse because as a Demo I used to be able to keep my distance but now the Pyro can just shoot my nades back in my face. Up close I'm dead and far away my nades are rendered harmless by a blast of air. It's a win-win for the Pyro and he needs a negative point modifier or something to balance this crap out. To add insult to injury Pyros can just run through sticky traps with their air cannon making it tougher yet to kill them.

Now I am not saying I can't kill Pyros and Scouts but I am saying the Pyro is much more powerful then some people try to claim. That don't need any extra help earning points. I forget who it was but I agree with who ever said all kills should get the same points. We can argue how easy or difficult it is to kill people with any specific weapon or class so to avoid these issues don't give one class more points for a kill over another. Extra points for melee kills is broken too since it has been shown different melee weapons do different damage, have different ranges and crit at different rates. This makes them no different then any other weapon so keep a kill a kill, even a melee. Although I do agree giving extra points for Medic assists to encourage people to play the class.

meh...I really don't care either way. Besides, it's not like Valve is done updating the classes. I mean everyone is saying how the pyro is too overpowered...well...yea...cause they just updated it. I did however thing the extra health was bogus and so did Valve so they removed it. I wonder if people will be saying that each class is overpowered when it gets an update. How about, we let Valve update ALL of the classes, THEN assess whether or not it's overpowered. But as of right now, the pyro is the first class that can be used for offense (on it's own) to recieve an update. And as for the point modifier, if a pyro can manage thrart off all of my long distance attacks, manage to actually get close enough to me to burn me, and burn me long enough to kill me, then ok, I think he would have earned his extra points. But again, either way, I don't really care.

[Timmah!]

Everyone...plz stop basing arguments on a single class-vs-class matchup in a hypothetical wide-open map with no buildings or obstacles! It's called TEAM fortress 2 because certain classes are at a natural advantage or disadvantage to others when the skill levels are equal. Let's just say that the pyro update made the pyro balanced, for the sake of argument, with the other classes. A pyro of equal skill to opposing players can get just as many kills in general as any other class. It's not 2.60 times harder to get a kill with the flamethrower as a rocket.

Spec me or Iron lung or David or Stinky Bikini playing pyro sometime (okay, I'll give BADog props too :p) if you don't believe me. In fact, Panda, I recall raping your team not too long ago after I noticed that "wow, my team doesn't have a pyro! Finally I get to play it again" (I remember you were surprised at this - btw I used to play pyro plenty before the upgrade).

[PandaBear Assassin]

Everyone...plz stop basing arguments on a single class-vs-class matchup in a hypothetical wide-open map with no buildings or obstacles! It's called TEAM fortress 2 because certain classes are at a natural advantage or disadvantage to others when the skill levels are equal. Let's just say that the pyro update made the pyro balanced, for the sake of argument, with the other classes. A pyro of equal skill to opposing players can get just as many kills in general as any other class. It's not 2.60 times harder to get a kill with the flamethrower as a rocket.

Spec me or Iron lung or David or Stinky Bikini playing pyro sometime (okay, I'll give BADog props too :p) if you don't believe me. In fact, Panda, I recall raping your team not too long ago after I noticed that "wow, my team doesn't have a pyro! Finally I get to play it again" (I remember you were surprised at this - btw I used to play pyro plenty before the upgrade).

yea...I'm not trying to argue...cause again, I don't really care about it all that much. I just play, kill people, and have fun. Valve will finishe all the updates and everything will be all good. Hell I have no complaints now. Yea i was surprised..but still...meh.